Está Mace Tyrell “O Senhor Oaf do Jardim Elevado” nos livros?

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Eu não li os livros, embora eu esteja vagamente familiarizado com as principais linhas da história e os personagens.

No programa de TV, Mace Tyrell é retratado como um palhaço, um imbecil. Olenna Tyrell o chama assim em várias ocasiões, por exemplo:

The Lord Oaf of Highgarden

Game of Thrones, Season 3 Episode 2, "Dark Wings, Dark Words"

Na quarta e quinta temporadas, ele parece ser um idiota covarde que está tentando agradar a realeza Lannister, completa com piadas idiotas.

Mace Tyrell é retratado como um idiota igualmente bobo e sem fôlego nos livros?

    
por TheLethalCarrot 31.05.2015 / 14:53

2 respostas

Sim, está nos livros. Olenna ligou para Mace Tyrell "Lord oaf" e muito mais.

Uma tempestade de espadas , capítulo 6, Sansa I.

“Renly was brave and gentle, Grandmother,” said Margaery. “Father liked him as well, and so did Loras.”

“Loras is young,” Lady Olenna said crisply, “and very good at knocking men off horses with a stick. That does not make him wise. As to your father, would that I’d been born a peasant woman with a big wooden spoon, I might have been able to beat some sense into his fat head.”

“Mother,” Lady Alerie scolded.

“Hush, Alerie, don’t take that tone with me. And don’t call me Mother. If I’d given birth to you, I’m sure I’d remember. I’m only to blame for your husband, the lord oaf of Highgarden.

“Grandmother,” Margaery said, “mind your words, or what will Sansa think of us?”

“She might think we have some wits about us. One of us, at any rate.” The old woman turned back to Sansa. “It’s treason, I warned them, Robert has two sons, and Renly has an older brother, how can he possibly have any claim to that ugly iron chair? Tut-tut, says my son, don’t you want your sweetling to be queen? You Starks were kings once, the Arryns and the Lannisters as well, and even the Baratheons through the female line, but the Tyrells were no more than stewards until Aegon the Dragon came along and cooked the rightful King of the Reach on the Field of Fire. If truth be told, even our claim to Highgarden is a bit dodgy, just as those dreadful Florents are always whining. ‘What does it matter?’ you ask, and of course it doesn’t, except to oafs like my son. The thought that one day he may see his grandson with his arse on the Iron Throne makes Mace puff up like . . . now, what do you call it? Margaery, you’re clever, be a dear and tell your poor old half-daft grandmother the name of that queer fish from the Summer Isles that puffs up to ten times its own size when you poke it.”

“They call them puff fish, Grandmother.”

“Of course they do. Summer Islanders have no imagination. My son ought to take the puff fish for his sigil, if truth be told. He could put a crown on it, the way the Baratheons do their stag, mayhap that would make him happy. We should have stayed well out of all this bloody foolishness if you ask me, but once the cow’s been milked there’s no squirting the cream back up her udder. After Lord Puff Fish put that crown on Renly’s head, we were into the pudding up to our knees, so here we are to see things through. And what do you say to that, Sansa?”

E novamente no mesmo capítulo.

As the servants brought out a broth of leeks and mushrooms, Butterbumps began to juggle and Lady Olenna pushed herself forward to rest her elbows on the table. “Do you know my son, Sansa? Lord Puff Fish of Highgarden?”

“A great lord,” Sansa answered politely.

A great oaf,” said the Queen of Thorns. “His father was an oaf as well. My husband, the late Lord Luthor. Oh, I loved him well enough, don’t mistake me. A kind man, and not unskilled in the bedchamber, but an appalling oaf all the same. He managed to ride off a cliff whilst hawking. They say he was looking up at the sky and paying no mind to where his horse was taking him.

And now my oaf son is doing the same, only he’s riding a lion instead of a palfrey. It is easy to mount a lion and not so easy to get off, I warned him, but he only chuckles. Should you ever have a son, Sansa, beat him frequently so he learns to mind you. I only had the one boy and I hardly beat him at all, so now he pays more heed to Butterbumps than he does to me. A lion is not a lap cat, I told him, and he gives me a ‘tut-tut-Mother.’ There is entirely too much tut-tutting in this realm, if you ask me. All these kings would do a deal better if they would put down their swords and listen to their mothers.”

Mas não, ele não é tão tolo. Mace sabe que os Lannisters precisam dele, e tenta usar isso para o benefício de sua casa e para benefício pessoal também. Talvez ele seja ambicioso demais e às vezes isso o cega, como quando ele se aproximou de Cersei durante o funeral de Lorde Tywin (AFFC, capítulo 7, Cersei) e insinuou que ele queria a posição da Mão, e também lembrou que Tywin prometeu a posição de Mestre das Moedas ao seu tio. Isso irrita Cersei e no final nenhum Tyrell chega no pequeno conselho de Cersei. Então Mace servindo sob Cersei acontece apenas no programa de TV.

George RR Martin acha Mace do programa de TV é retratado como um idiota. Ele afirma que o personagem no show combina Mace com Harys Swyft , e na verdade parece mais como o último.

Of course, it could also be a subtle bit of characterization, as you suggest, intended to show that Mace is an idiot who does not know his Westerosi history. (Not a mistake that Book Mace would make, but the character in the show combines Mace with Harys Swyft, and actually seems more like the latter).

Spoilers, breve resumo de eventos futuros:

After Cersei gets imprisoned by the Faith, she confesses her guilt and is forced to step down as Queen Regent. Tywin's brother Kevan starts to act as new Regent and Mace Tyrell gets his desired position, and becomes the new Hand of the King. How good a Hand he will make will be revealed after The Winds of Winter (the next and much awaited book from ASOIAF series) gets released.

    
31.05.2015 / 17:24

A cotação real do GRRM sobre isso, O link de Nika é:

Q: Side question we've having trouble with on the wiki: in episode 9, Mace Tyrell refers to "Maegor the Third", and clearly describes him as a king of the Seven Kingdoms. There are three possibilities: 1 - the actor flubbed the line and meant "Maegor the Cruel", 2 - the script intentionally wrote Mace making a mistake, trying to depict him as a bumbling fool getting his facts wrong, or 3 - the writers intentionally wanted to introduce TWO separate kings onto the Iron Throne. Given that we have a full listing of kings that is difficult.

GRRM:I suspect that "Maegor III" was a mistake, though I cannot say for certain ... Of course, it could also be a subtle bit of characterization, as you suggest, intended to show that Mace is an idiot who does not know his Westerosi history. (Not a mistake that Book Mace would make, but the character in the show combines Mace with Harys Swyft, and actually seems more like the latter).

Esta discussão tem um bom resumo das realizações mais duvidosas de Harys Swyft:

  • AGOT: Harys criticizes Jaime, pissing off all of the Lannisters.
  • ACOK: He goes to Harrenhal with Tywin. He somehow pisses off all of the cooks and they spit in his food.
  • Harys' squire taunts the bloody mummers and gets killed. Harys is forced to hug and kiss Vargo Hoat to make up for the argument.
  • During the Battle of the Blackwater, Ser Harys spends most of the battle under his horse. He is eventually rescued by a man named Willit.
  • AFFC: Harys is briefly made the hand of the king, his only qualifying feature being his stupidity. He is soon demoted to Master of Coin before doing anything of any importance.
  • ADWD: As Master of Coin, Ser Harys is sent all the way to Braavos to sort out King's Landing's financial mess.

Para trazer essa discussão de volta para Mace, ele não é quase o idiota tolo e sem fôlego nos livros como ele é retratado no programa.

    
07.07.2015 / 16:03