O mensageiro enviado por Sauron (para Erebor) poderia ser um Easterling?

Question

O mensageiro enviado por Sauron (para Erebor) poderia ser um Easterling?

#1 resposta do (4 votos)
#2 resposta do (3 votos)

8

Sauron envia um mensageiro para Erebor. Meu amigo diz que o mensageiro não poderia ser um Nazgûl, pois sabemos onde eles estavam localizados quando o mensageiro chega a Erebor.

"Then about a year ago a messenger came to Dáin, but not from Moria - from Mordor: a horseman in the night, who called Dáin to his gate. The Lord Sauron the Great, so he said, wished for our friendship. Rings he would give for it, such as he gave of old. And he asked urgently concerning hobbits , of what kind they were, and where they dwelt. "For Sauron knows," said he, "that one of these was known to you on a time."...

...'At that his breath came like the hiss of snakes, and all who stood by shuddered, but Dáin said: "I say neither yea nor nay. I must consider this message and what it means under its fair cloak." _{^{LOTR : The Fellowship of the Ring}}

Ela também menciona que provavelmente havia mais de uma pessoa e que, apesar de "assobiar" ser principalmente um traço nazgul, ela diz que o assobio é usado por muitas criaturas malignas. Então, é uma Páscoa uma possibilidade?

Sabemos quem (ou o quê) era o mensageiro?

tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings the-hobbit

por user31546 15.11.2014 / 20:01

2 respostas

3

Se não foi um dos Nazgûl, então pode ter sido a boca de Sauron:

RotK, Livro V, Ch. 10 O Portão Negro abre :

At its head there rode a tall and evil shape, mounted upon a black horse, if horse it was; for it was huge and hideous, and its face was a frightful mask, more like a skull than a living head, and in the sockets of its eyes and in its nostrils there burned a flame. The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man. The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dûr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: ‘I am the Mouth of Sauron.’ But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Númenóreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron’s domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge. And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again, and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord’s favour; and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron; and he was more cruel than any orc.

Mais adiante no mesmo capítulo:

Then the Messenger of Mordor laughed no more. His face was twisted with amazement and anger to the likeness of some wild beast that, as it crouches on its prey, is smitten on the muzzle with a stinging rod. Rage filled him and his mouth slavered, and shapeless sounds of fury came strangling from his throat. But he looked at the fell faces of the Captains and their deadly eyes, and fear overcame his wrath. He gave a great cry, and turned, leaped upon his steed, and with his company galloped madly back to Cirith Gorgor. But as they went his soldiers blew their horns in signal long arranged; and even before they came to the gate Sauron sprang his trap.

A mensagem e as ofertas que Sauron estava fazendo para Dain provavelmente eram importantes o suficiente para Sauron mandar enviar seu tenente principal (vivo). Mas até onde eu sei, o mensageiro que veio para Erebor nunca é especificamente identificado.

16.11.2014 / 01:28

Tags tolkiens-legendarium the-lord-of-the-rings the-hobbit

Está estudando regras e apontando quais esticamos ou quebramos ok? O que são essas plantas a bordo do “Rocinante”?

score 4 · Answer 1

Poderia ser um Nazgûl, mas provavelmente não

A citação da pergunta faz parte do relatório de Glóin ao Conselho de Elrond em 25 de outubro de 3018 (Terceira Era). Glóin afirma que o mensageiro chegou a Erebor cerca de um ano atrás, então seria o final de 2017.

Contos Inacabados , Tolkien descreve os movimentos dos Nazgûl enquanto eles procuram pelo Anel, mas esse relato não começa até junho de 3018, vários meses após o mensageiro chegar a Erebor.

At length he resolved that no others would serve him in this case but his mightiest servants, the Ringwraiths, who had no will but his own, being each utterly subservient to the ring that had enslaved him, which Sauron held.

Now few could withstand even one of these fell creatures, and (as Sauron deemed) none could withstand them when gathered together under their terrible captain, the Lord of Morgul. Yet this weakness they had for Sauron's present purpose: so great was the terror that went with them (even invisible and unclad) that their coming forth might soon be perceived and their mission be guessed by the Wise.

So it was that Sauron prepared two strokes - in which many saw the beginnings of the War of the Ring. They were made together. The Orcs assailed the realm of Thranduil, with orders to recapture Gollum; and the Lord of Morgul was sent forth openly to battle against Gondor. These things were done towards the end of June 3018.

_{Unfinished Tales Part Three, Chapter IV, (i) Of the Journey of the Black Riders}
_{Page 338 (Houghton Mifflin 1980 hardback edition)}

Não há relato do paradeiro dos Nazgûl nos meses anteriores a junho de 3018, portanto, um deles poderia teoricamente ter sido o mensageiro enviado para Erebor.
No entanto, a passagem que citei deixa claro que Sauron estava ciente de que os Nazgûl seriam vistos quando viajassem e planejassem cuidadosamente sua aparição em junho de 3018. Parece improvável que isso fosse necessário se um deles já tivesse viajado para Erebor. o ano passado.

A passagem também sugere que Sauron pretendia usar os Nazgûl apenas para tarefas que só eles poderiam realizar. Parece improvável que enviar uma mensagem para Erebor fosse uma tarefa dessas.

Então, quem foi o mensageiro?
O ponto principal, até onde posso ver, é que o mensageiro provavelmente não era um Nazgûl, mas não podemos descartá-lo completamente. Ele certamente poderia ter sido um Easterling, mas não há nenhuma evidência particular apontando nessa direção (Sauron tinha muitas pessoas sob seu controle).

score 3 · Answer 2

Se não foi um dos Nazgûl, então pode ter sido a boca de Sauron:

RotK, Livro V, Ch. 10 O Portão Negro abre :

At its head there rode a tall and evil shape, mounted upon a black horse, if horse it was; for it was huge and hideous, and its face was a frightful mask, more like a skull than a living head, and in the sockets of its eyes and in its nostrils there burned a flame. The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man. The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dûr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: ‘I am the Mouth of Sauron.’ But it is told that he was a renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black Númenóreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during the years of Sauron’s domination, and they worshipped him, being enamoured of evil knowledge. And he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again, and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord’s favour; and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron; and he was more cruel than any orc.

Mais adiante no mesmo capítulo:

Then the Messenger of Mordor laughed no more. His face was twisted with amazement and anger to the likeness of some wild beast that, as it crouches on its prey, is smitten on the muzzle with a stinging rod. Rage filled him and his mouth slavered, and shapeless sounds of fury came strangling from his throat. But he looked at the fell faces of the Captains and their deadly eyes, and fear overcame his wrath. He gave a great cry, and turned, leaped upon his steed, and with his company galloped madly back to Cirith Gorgor. But as they went his soldiers blew their horns in signal long arranged; and even before they came to the gate Sauron sprang his trap.

A mensagem e as ofertas que Sauron estava fazendo para Dain provavelmente eram importantes o suficiente para Sauron mandar enviar seu tenente principal (vivo). Mas até onde eu sei, o mensageiro que veio para Erebor nunca é especificamente identificado.